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Even More Despicable Than A Dodgy Politician…And It Takes Some Doing To Sink That Low

Monday Moaning logoPoliticians, by and large, don’t seem to score highly in the honesty and integrity stakes.

Maybe the fact that so many of them don’t appear to have any morals whatsoever and tend to tell lies for a living has something to do with it.

So when I hear an online program owner being compared less favorably than a politician then I know something is wrong.This happened recently in TELive as part of a segment about cooperation between competing businesses which sparked quite a debate.

The debate came about when one rather well-known traffic exchange owner revealed how another program owner said that while he would support the former in private, he could not bring himself to do so in public.

Apparently, the reasoning was that adopting such a position would be best for their respective customer bases, or something like that.

What a cowardly and unashamedly duplicitous position this is to take.

And as someone observed in TE Live during the debate on this matter, even politicians don’t generally behave that badly.

Just in case anyone reading this does not understand what I mean here, let me spell it out in very clear English.

You can’t support someone privately while failing to support them in public.

It is like telling your spouse you love them as you leave the house and then sleeping with their best friend as you take a detour on the journey home.

And before the PatrickGriffinOnline haters come out in force, you will notice that I have not named anyone here, so put down those poison quills, you don’t need them today.

However if you are reading this and you recognize yourself as someone who is prepared to vilify someone in public while claiming to “support” them in private then please feel free to leave a comment. I would love to know how anyone could justify such a position.

One has to take a stance in life when it comes to those whom you choose to support. If someone, some cause, some business or some belief is worth supporting then it is worth supporting fully and openly or it is not worth supporting at all.

I don’t need fair weather friends.

I don’t need friends who will support me in private and hang me out to dry as soon as my back is turned.

In fact who does need friends like that?


17 Responses to Even More Despicable Than A Dodgy Politician…And It Takes Some Doing To Sink That Low

  1. Cristian Stan ROMANIA August 27, 2012 at 9:26 am #

    :)) I think there are rules to qualify as a politician: never do the things you promise; steal as much as you can; do care only about your welfare. Same thing with fake friends.
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  2. Mark Hodgetts AUSTRALIA August 27, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    Patrick, another quality and though provoking post which prompts me to make a couple of observations.
    The TE Industry is one of the most competitive and dare I say it, cutthroat industries in the IM marketplace. Those industry owners who prosper and succeed in his industry seserve everything they get. However, the constant back biting, name calling, white anting and petty jealousies aired in public forums does nobody credit.
    I don’t know another sector of IM (except for the very dubious areas of HYIP, cyclers and other rubbish – but then they’re not really IM -closer to ponzi) where people seem compelled to polarize.
    Part of it seems inherent (Smiley traffic wrote the book I believe), sometimes I think it contrived, and sometimes it just seems childish.
    I use TE’s as part of my overall ad strategy and I find that not getting involved allows me to concentrate on what I want to do rather than be drawn into other people’s battles.
    Yes, I agree public support is vital if you want to build long standing friends and business relationships – but on the other hand, I firmly believe in standing on my own two feet.
    I believe in and have recommended various Timtech TE’s from time to time, but when I believe they’ve made a mistake, I have no hesitation in saying so(I still don’t know why they had to change ThumbVu and remove the article directory). That’s what good friends do don’t they? They actually tell the truth rather than become sycophantic. Lots of people don’t seem to get that- they expect you to be all in or all out.

    BTW, these are general observations and are not directed at anyone in particular – I could just as easily cited Logicscape, Kinder-Rash or John Bell. Nobody gets it right all the time.

    • Patrick Griffin
      August 27, 2012 at 6:33 pm #

      Hi Mark,
      For some reason the TE industry does really seem to polarize opinion and get people really angry from time to time.
      I completely agree with you that support for online friends is vital and that does mean that you cannot be sycophantic – tell friends when they are doing great and also let them know when they get stuff wrong.
      Great comment.
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  3. Tony Tezak
    August 27, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

    Hello Patrick
    Over the past couple of years it seems to be vogue to bash, vilify, hate and condemn folks within the TE World. The use of these words seem to flow freely within the TE World and really is too bad. Most of the folks I deal within the TE World are decent folks and are really trying to do their best. Some succeed and some don’t. Some I agree with and others I do not agree with. But using the word hate or worse to describe those who I disagree with just does not register with me. :)
    I wonder when and how the word ‘disagree’ became to mean ‘hate’.
    Oh well, I’ll just keep trying to work with all of the folks in the TE World and keep wonder why there is so much anger in some corners of the TE World.

    • Patrick Griffin
      August 27, 2012 at 6:41 pm #

      Hi Tony,
      I have to agree completely about those who go around saying they “hate” this or that individual because I don’t think that such a strong negative emotion is ever called for.
      I think everyone who uses the word “hate” in relation to the TE industry should take your advice and see whether “disagree” is a better fit.
      Thanks for your thoughtful response.
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  4. Thomas L. Knapp UNITED STATES August 27, 2012 at 7:14 pm #


    Not having been at the episode of TE Live you’re referring to, I don’t know the full context of that specific incident.

    However, in general, you seem to be excluding the middle.

    Granted, it’s wrong as hell to privately “support” / publicly “vilify” someone — or vice versa.

    On the other hand, there’s not necessarily anything wrong with privately “supporting” someone, but publicly choosing to just not discuss them.

    Just as an easy non-TE-world example, suppose it just so happens that I buy stuff at Wal-Mart. That doesn’t mean that I have to publicly take Wal-Mart’s side in debates about their business practices, etc. It would be hypocritical of me to “publicly” take the anti-Wal-Mart side in those debates while spending $500 a month there “privately,” but doing business with them doesn’t obligate me to be one of their cheerleaders.

  5. Patrick Griffin
    August 27, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

    Hi Tom,
    I don’t think I am excluding the middle ground here…in fact I don’t accept that there is a middle ground in the issue I am talking about.
    I am not talking about being a cheerleader for every company you do business with.
    What I am saying is that you can’t be a supportive friend of someone in private only. It does not work like that.
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  6. Matthew Graves UNITED STATES August 28, 2012 at 5:43 am #

    Hi Patrick,

    I agree with Tony on this one. There is too much drama and it hurts the industry and the members. It is a distraction and makes our industry look less professional, which is a turn off to the members who are investing in building an online business. That is what we are trying to do here, create businesses not create an online gossip community like TMZ. Over the last two years, I have seen many members who were building their businesses and investing in their own growth leave the whole TE industry and find other places to advertise.

    Unfortunately, it is exactly this kind of negative environment that can cause people to think twice about who they support publicly and who they do not. In a polarized world, if you support one side, you turn off the other side.

    It is much like politics actually. I have friends who do not have the same political views that I have. I deliberately do not discuss politics with them or tell them who I support because it would damage our friendship. Same applies to your customers. If Owner A and Owner B are having a public feud and you express support for either one, then your members will think you are taking sides in the disagreement, even if you are not. You end up damaging your relationship with part of your membership. Not a good idea.

    The true solution to the problem lies with Owner A and Owner B who should not be putting those who they call their “friends” in the middle of an ugly argument and ask them to take sides. If there was not a public feud to begin with, then we would be free to support both without damaging our relationship with the other.

    Simple Relationship Management 101 in my opinion. “With us” or “Against us” mentality will make those who do not want controversy run away. Unfortunately, those who do not want controversy are usually the most “business oriented” people who have the skills and money to move our industry forward.

    I personally will keep supporting and working with owners who want to make our industry better place for our members to get real results.

    Matthew Graves

    P.S. – I was not part of the discussion in TE Live and do not know which two people had this discussion about supporting each other in the first place. However, I don’t think that anyone should go out in a public forum and discuss the details of a private conversation they had with someone else, unless they asked for and received permission to do so by the other person. Inappropriate at best. After all, the person who had decided not to publicly support the other was not present to defend his/her position.

    • Patrick Griffin
      August 28, 2012 at 6:46 am #

      Hi Matthew,
      You and Tony are both correct…there is too much drama in the industry and that drama can be a huge distraction which is clearly not a good thing.

      I also like your politics example. I have never really understood why people can’t have a debate where each person expresses a different point of view on a certain subject without it turning into a heated argument and often an all-out fight.

      For that reason I too tend not to engage people I don’t know too well in conversations about politics or religion.

      As far as your post script goes then I would think it would depend on the circumstances. If I have a conversation with you then surely I am free to repeat that conversation to anyone I wish unless there is an either an express or implicit suggestion of confidentiality between the parties.

      So if you told me something on the basis that like “this is strictly between you and me…” then there is an express understanding that I should repeat that in a public forum.

      Similarly if we were discussed in a discussion where we were discussing business plans ahead of a scheduled announcement then it would be at least implied that neither of us would jump the gun and make the plans public ahead of the agreed announcement.

      However the suggestion that everything should be private unless both sides ask for and receive permission to make it public seems a little unworkable in my view.

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  7. Matthew Graves UNITED STATES August 28, 2012 at 5:57 am #

    Follow up comment:

    You noted early in the original post that the Program Owner told the TE Owner that he supported him privately but could not do so publicly.

    Later you said the the Program Owner was vilifying the TE Owner in public.

    There is certainly a big difference between simply leaving your support private and actually having negative comments in public.

    I think it is someone’s right to leave their support private in order to avoid being drawn into a feud or damaging their relationship with their clients.

    The latter situation is wrong on every level and only increases the controversy.

    If you have a criticism of another program, then have that discussion in private with the owner of the program, if you consider them a partner or friend. Never criticize another program or owner in a public forum.

    Matthew Graves

    However, if the person actually supports the TE Owner in pri

    • Patrick Griffin
      August 28, 2012 at 7:01 am #

      Hi again Matthew,

      For clarification, by the stage in the blog post when I mentioned the word ‘vilify’ I had moved on from the original example and was speaking in more general terms because I think the general issue here is more important than exactly what person “A” said to person “B.”

      Again I find myself in full agreement with you that if two business owners are partners and/or friends then it would be more than a little odd for one or other of them to air their criticisms of the other in public without first bringing the matter up privately.

      Thanks for commenting.

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      • TIm Rash UNITED STATES August 29, 2012 at 4:22 am #

        Hello Patrick,
        You seem like a nice enough guy when I met you recently. You are intelligent, articulate with a good understanding of relationships and business.
        I have thought a lot about this post. I am not person who likes controversy, and drama. I tend to look for the silver lining in situations. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

        I prefer to try to mend relationships for the greater good of industry. I think you fully understand why it is good to heal old wounds and try to grow the industry together. I truly appreciate the olive branches Justin and Jon have extended. However, as a friend of theirs, this post does not help promote healing of those wounds. I am personally disappointed. I am certain you understand why.

        I not going to let this be a negative thing. It is now my intention to facilitate some mending of fences between those you have alluded to in the post.

        My hope is you will see my gesture of good will and find something positive you can make of this situation.

  8. Jazz Zangeres NETHERLANDS August 28, 2012 at 8:03 am #

    These things happen quite frequently on schools because most teenagers still have to learn about loyalty and what’s that all about. Those are considered to be social mistakes – but in essence, I think it’s exactly the same. It’s saying what you think most people standing around you want to hear, in order to belong to a certain group. I’m only 19 but I think such behaviour sometimes is necessary in order to survive. Could the case you describe be about political survival?

    • Patrick Griffin
      August 28, 2012 at 8:30 am #

      Hi Jazz,

      I think you may be correct that there is an element of telling people what they want to hear in order to fit in with one particular group.

      But if you tell one group of people what they want to hear while saying something different to another party in private are you not actually letting all sides down?

      I think actually you are.

      Thanks for your comment.